Thanks for this, Kim. I have a similar relationship currently with my dad. Over the years I have detached more and more. I slowly stopped sharing about my life and that dwindled to absolutely no sharing with this last presidential election. Our relationship was already superficial, texting about food mostly. Now, I do not text him at all and he sends me the odd text about food or plants in his yard. I text back, "Pretty" or "Cool" or "Looks delicious". I've been in therapy for a few years, processing childhood stuff, and mom and dad issues. EMDR therapy has been wonderful for finally processing and getting on the other side of past trauma. Thanks again for such an important and meaningful essay.
I am impressed with how you are able to articulate such a complex relationship. My heart goes out to you! My mother would clarify for me that; "I love you but I don't like you!", I'm pretty sure she yelled it each time she said it. I'm positive my mother loved me to death; the personality disorder that was caused, could have killed me. Fortunately, I've been therapy for most of the last 30 years. I got sober when I was 25 and discovered therapy. They say now that I have what's called C-PTSD. Directly as result of ongoing trauma, which was my childhood after 8 years old. Things weren't perfect before that but everything changed that year. Thank you for writing!💜
Martine - therapy, sobriety, acceptance/forgiveness all lead us to some kind of wholeness, don't they? So glad you are doing great now. Good for you!!!! xo
Thank you for your honesty in writing this lovely piece. It brought tears to my eyes as I thought of the love I have shared as both daughter and mother. Life and love are complex and beautiful.
Your stories are amazing and filled with so much honesty. I wish I could get there myself, but there are things I don't feel comfortable sharing with strangers. I have shared them with my wife. Thank you for sharing!
It’s enough to share with your partner! I feel like at this point, what do I have to lose? You don’t have to share anything that makes you feel exposed. It’s all about comfort. :)
Beautiful. Thank you for sharing about the relationship you had with your mother so honestly. It's refreshing to read, albeit, not without some tender feelings. I find it absolutely wild (and not surprising at all, really) that I would stumble upon your substack and mention how mortality and my mother's dementia diagnosis have been at the forefront of my heart lately... and now I'm reading your post on your own mother. What a world. <3
This really hits me hard. We've changed our entire life around to move my mother in with us. She was so excited at first. But over time it has gotten much more challenging. She is a terminally unhappy woman. I think she expected me to fill in all her empty spots, which I can't. Your article reminds me to soften up. To give her grace. To love her in spite of her negativity. Easier said than done, but a most worthy goal. Thank you for the nudge.
I was supposed to pick up my phone at this moment and scroll to find your story. “Mother, daughter relationships, complicated, complicated, Dementia..
I wanted to start and respond to your story. But in the state of mind I am right now I don’t think I could give it the proper attention and accolades you deserve for your bravery, detail and honesty of your heart.
I always felt so alone, until reading your story. I am from L.A. and those that knew bits and pieces of my story said, “You have a book and a movie here”.
My mother is still here 85 years old, I am her only living child and to keep this short, she never liked me and still doesn’t and reminds me all the time. My grandmother had Alzheimer’s, dementia.. but my mother refused to take care of her. So I brought my grandmother to Los Angeles from Miami and I just had a baby and took care of my grandmother and my newborn.
My mother does not know Joy, she only talks about everyone that has hurt her or stolen from her and what I am not or who I am not or what I have not amounted to.
She doesn’t understand forgiveness, she doesn’t understand that she’s not the only one that bad things happen to her.
She doesn’t understand that it’s all the little things out there that could give her joy. And she reminds me that I’m never there for her, that if I was there for her she wouldn’t have all the problems she has. My brother who was obviously mentally ill as we found out later. And she favored him like nobody’s business and understandably so. They were like two peas in a pod or rather two thieves in a bank.. and I was an outcast. And simply put, he abuse me since I was five years old till he died when he was 20. She always says to me you’ve had such an easy life you’re always living your dreams I’ve never had that opportunity. I do not dwell on any of this but apparently it’s in my head somewhere because I have a lot of triggers. Does she have dementia? I forget more things than she does. I am a bipolar and I’m not afraid to admit it it explained to me all of my behaviors. They told her she was a bipolar and she said no I’m not my daughter is. She has dilutions of a man that she used to date that’s coming into her home and stealing everything for seven years now… It has become an obsession like crazy crazy, the police have been involved lawyers she spent thousands and thousands of dollars sold her car bought a new car because she says he’s driving it around. And granted he was not a nice guy and I do believe he could steal from her. Anyway, I am her only living relative and she will not give me power of attorney because she says I’m going to steal from her. At the same time I’m trying to help her with everything she’s doing and then at the same time she’s telling me I don’t help her with anything. Every conversation we have on the phone. Not one time has she said to me “Hello, how are you?” it just starts with every problem that she has and all negative negative negative talk when I’m trying to fix myself and trying to remain positive in my own crap that’s happening. And then she’ll say to me..”I wouldn’t want your life it’s horrible” that’s because you’ve always lived your dreams and I never got the chance. I raised my son alone, I lived in my car I got beat up a lot and I’m not gonna even get into all the other things because that has nothing to do with how she feels about me. She tells me she didn’t want me from the get-go. She tells me she doesn’t like women. She didn’t like children, she liked my brother and he… Well it doesn’t matter what he did to me, she never believe me and she blamed me for not telling her or anybody… I tried to explain how he threatened me if I would ever tell..
A lot of my friends just say you know what just because she’s family doesn’t mean you have to help her. But the empath in me and the compassion makes me feel like I have to help her in someway I can’t do it financially but I I feel that there’s something I need to do and I try and I try.
Every conversation that we’ve ever had in the last 15 years.. she hangs up no matter what their conversations about.
And she is really funny everyone loves her and she loved all my friends she compared me to all my friends my whole life… And they always said your mother is so sweet and kind and funny.. and I’m like “Who, what are you talking about?”
I was afraid to have a child because I thought whatever was done to me I would do to my child.
I broke the chain of abuse… But I wasn’t fixed… It showed up at this craziest times but I still did not succumb to the triggers and hurt my son…
I said I wasn’t going to write anything and I still wrote a lot more than I intended.
I did not write eloquently I’m not proofreading anything I’ve written I left out a lot of circumstances that would make their story make more sense. The grammar is all over the place and I apologize for that.. I just want to thank you Kim for sharing your story because it really woke me up and was such a comfort for my heart and mind, not that you went through all of that, but that I was not alone then, but I am not alone.. I might write more later or I might not… I’m having a bit of an episode, so who knows where my day will go next!
Thank you again and have a lovely weekend to one and all!
Your writing still takes my breath away! My mother and I had an equally complex relationship. My Nana too, was a crappy mother and fantastic grandmother. Honestly, I think I'm a much better grandmother (he calls me Cookie) than I was a mother.
When Holli began therapy -- at my suggestion -- I came up a lot. It was never hard for me to accept total responsibility for my poor behavior as her mother at times in her life. I was also the proud teen mom who fought for her like a tiger -- she has dyslexia -- and astound teachers with her ability to adapt as we used non-traditional methods which are now traditional in European societies.
I miss my mom more than I thought I would. I often say that . It startles people because she lived in our home for the last 2 years of her life. We got on like oil and water -- lit on fire by her need to be right and my need to be independent of her influence. Even until she died. Dear god, she was 96 and I was 61............I guess I never grew up.
I'm so proud and happy for you -- here's a thought I will leave you with on your complex feelings to your mom, like mine: Her influence brought you to who you are today and if you like that person, then she did a good job. I'm sure you've already accepted this but I often revisit this way of thinking when talking about my own daughter's issues with me!
I never felt loved by my mother in childhood so I didn’t believe I was lovable or competent. She would say things like, “Why can’t you do anything right?”
It was very hard getting through nursing school having no confidence in my judgment!!
After many years of therapy and experiencing unconditional love from my best friend, I began to discover healthy self esteem. I began to see how wounded she was by her childhood and my father and that she was doing the best she knew how at the time. She never learned social skills like how to give positive feedback or a compliment unless something was perfect. Even on her death bed she continued to issue orders which destroyed all my good intentions to create a feeling of connection with her. There was one day when she didn’t immediately greet me with ordering me to do something and I asked if she would like to hear what other people had seen in their near death experiences. She said she would. I told her about the light at the end of the tunnel and the life review and that there was no judgement. She said that would be nice, but apparently she didn’t believe me because until the end she kept requesting the chaplain to read her the Bible verse about no judgement for those who believe.
I think I’ve healed the part that didn’t feel loved by her and I now have healthy self love. I’m still wanting to find my love for her and I expect to continue my healing journey as long as I live. ❤️🩹
I’m 61. My mother died when I was 7 and I had several caretakers until I was 18 and started then living my life motherless. So I can’t really relate as a daughter. This essay hits me hard as a mother, however, and I cry in fear reading it. I’ve raised 3 good men and mainly as a single parent, and who all have married and started little families and living 10-15 minutes from me. I’m very grateful for that and open my home to Sunday Dinners. We also do things separately and as a family here and there throughout the year, and they do a good job juggling their married families. This has all taken time and patience and commitment.
All that being said, as a mother all I want is for my adult kids to tell me they love me, to look at me and listen to my crazy stories as I feel my deep panic of their gradual detachment. Our roles as parents diminish quickly and for some those realizations cut to the bone and a deep sadness settles in. There can be sporadic anger and confusion with this. Crying yourself to sleep at night. Crazy texts and phone calls begging for affirmation that you matter. My kids have told me I will not spend my years alone nor will I die alone. That’s all great and good, but what I really want right now is just to be seen. While it matters.
I’m still making peace with how I disregarded my MIL when in my 30’s, and because I was too busy and too self centered to see her for who she was. And learn from her. She died at 85 years ago and I would give anything to sit in her presence now for just one day. I know exactly how she felt as her son left and cleaved to me and stopped seeing her as important anymore in his life. I get that now to the deepest parts of my being. Damn me to Hell for how I treated her during those painful times. She raised a good son for me.
I do have 1 son who has detached from me over the past 2 years and since getting married. Almost no calls anymore, no answering my texts, sporadic visits. He is a new father of 8 months and I haven’t seen the baby hardly at all - 10 minutes away. Our work schedules are the same and my home is open for babysitting. But I get nothing. I have no idea what has happened and neither does the rest of the family. And this hurts beyond belief and I’m trying to find peace in his decisions to not include me in his life any longer.
Thank you for this again. I wish all the daughters and mothers peace out there. Life is complicated as hell. Mental health, personalities, and external influences really do smack us hard sometimes.
My heart gos out to you. I too, wish I'd had more compassion for my MIL, who now has dementia and cut ties after I divorced her son 15 years ago. Some things just have to be unfinished. Don't damn yourself for past mistakes. You too, did the best you could at the time. Sending you love and light.
Tricia - there is so much here in your comment. I appreciate you writing this so much. You know, I follow a support group of parents whose kids have ghosted them. The pain is immense. I follow along to try and think about why this happens. I also have a similar thing with my MIL. She was so welcoming and wonderful and then when I becamea mom to two under two and also had to handle my difficult mother, I had very little bandwidth for aything else. I wish she had been closer. It has always been my fear that I would drive my kids away. I had this great text exchange with another commenter but she did it in the The Great Perhaps essay. It is heart breaking to go through this. We talked about how our kids perceive us one way and we perceive things another. Let me see if I can add you…. anyway, I’m saving your comment, we should talk about this further.
Thank you Kim. Would love to be connected to more resources and chat more with you about this complex topic.
Another interesting thing I’ve been studying and understanding is the role menopause years play on the mental health of women and how it’s not a health topic that has received good focus and yet impacts women’s mental health for many years of their lives. I have been involved with HRT for 15 years myself and always wonder about whether the toxic behaviors adult children describe about their mothers is connected to the very ill effects of having to live with menopause.
Bravo for writing all of this down and sharing it openly. It’s courageous. I know how hard that can be. And mother-daughter relationships can be so incredibly complicated.
Essays like this is why I haven’t quite given up on substack. So moving, relatable and interesting. Thank you. You inspire me to get back to it myself!
Thanks for this, Kim. I have a similar relationship currently with my dad. Over the years I have detached more and more. I slowly stopped sharing about my life and that dwindled to absolutely no sharing with this last presidential election. Our relationship was already superficial, texting about food mostly. Now, I do not text him at all and he sends me the odd text about food or plants in his yard. I text back, "Pretty" or "Cool" or "Looks delicious". I've been in therapy for a few years, processing childhood stuff, and mom and dad issues. EMDR therapy has been wonderful for finally processing and getting on the other side of past trauma. Thanks again for such an important and meaningful essay.
I am impressed with how you are able to articulate such a complex relationship. My heart goes out to you! My mother would clarify for me that; "I love you but I don't like you!", I'm pretty sure she yelled it each time she said it. I'm positive my mother loved me to death; the personality disorder that was caused, could have killed me. Fortunately, I've been therapy for most of the last 30 years. I got sober when I was 25 and discovered therapy. They say now that I have what's called C-PTSD. Directly as result of ongoing trauma, which was my childhood after 8 years old. Things weren't perfect before that but everything changed that year. Thank you for writing!💜
Martine - therapy, sobriety, acceptance/forgiveness all lead us to some kind of wholeness, don't they? So glad you are doing great now. Good for you!!!! xo
Thank you for your honesty in writing this lovely piece. It brought tears to my eyes as I thought of the love I have shared as both daughter and mother. Life and love are complex and beautiful.
Your stories are amazing and filled with so much honesty. I wish I could get there myself, but there are things I don't feel comfortable sharing with strangers. I have shared them with my wife. Thank you for sharing!
It’s enough to share with your partner! I feel like at this point, what do I have to lose? You don’t have to share anything that makes you feel exposed. It’s all about comfort. :)
Beautiful. Thank you for sharing about the relationship you had with your mother so honestly. It's refreshing to read, albeit, not without some tender feelings. I find it absolutely wild (and not surprising at all, really) that I would stumble upon your substack and mention how mortality and my mother's dementia diagnosis have been at the forefront of my heart lately... and now I'm reading your post on your own mother. What a world. <3
This really hits me hard. We've changed our entire life around to move my mother in with us. She was so excited at first. But over time it has gotten much more challenging. She is a terminally unhappy woman. I think she expected me to fill in all her empty spots, which I can't. Your article reminds me to soften up. To give her grace. To love her in spite of her negativity. Easier said than done, but a most worthy goal. Thank you for the nudge.
Thank you for this beautiful piece. As a daughter and mother, the mysteries of those relationships resonates deeply with me.
Wonderful writing - truthful till it hurts. However, I don’t believe any of us deserve more than we get. It’s life.
I was supposed to pick up my phone at this moment and scroll to find your story. “Mother, daughter relationships, complicated, complicated, Dementia..
I wanted to start and respond to your story. But in the state of mind I am right now I don’t think I could give it the proper attention and accolades you deserve for your bravery, detail and honesty of your heart.
I always felt so alone, until reading your story. I am from L.A. and those that knew bits and pieces of my story said, “You have a book and a movie here”.
My mother is still here 85 years old, I am her only living child and to keep this short, she never liked me and still doesn’t and reminds me all the time. My grandmother had Alzheimer’s, dementia.. but my mother refused to take care of her. So I brought my grandmother to Los Angeles from Miami and I just had a baby and took care of my grandmother and my newborn.
My mother does not know Joy, she only talks about everyone that has hurt her or stolen from her and what I am not or who I am not or what I have not amounted to.
She doesn’t understand forgiveness, she doesn’t understand that she’s not the only one that bad things happen to her.
She doesn’t understand that it’s all the little things out there that could give her joy. And she reminds me that I’m never there for her, that if I was there for her she wouldn’t have all the problems she has. My brother who was obviously mentally ill as we found out later. And she favored him like nobody’s business and understandably so. They were like two peas in a pod or rather two thieves in a bank.. and I was an outcast. And simply put, he abuse me since I was five years old till he died when he was 20. She always says to me you’ve had such an easy life you’re always living your dreams I’ve never had that opportunity. I do not dwell on any of this but apparently it’s in my head somewhere because I have a lot of triggers. Does she have dementia? I forget more things than she does. I am a bipolar and I’m not afraid to admit it it explained to me all of my behaviors. They told her she was a bipolar and she said no I’m not my daughter is. She has dilutions of a man that she used to date that’s coming into her home and stealing everything for seven years now… It has become an obsession like crazy crazy, the police have been involved lawyers she spent thousands and thousands of dollars sold her car bought a new car because she says he’s driving it around. And granted he was not a nice guy and I do believe he could steal from her. Anyway, I am her only living relative and she will not give me power of attorney because she says I’m going to steal from her. At the same time I’m trying to help her with everything she’s doing and then at the same time she’s telling me I don’t help her with anything. Every conversation we have on the phone. Not one time has she said to me “Hello, how are you?” it just starts with every problem that she has and all negative negative negative talk when I’m trying to fix myself and trying to remain positive in my own crap that’s happening. And then she’ll say to me..”I wouldn’t want your life it’s horrible” that’s because you’ve always lived your dreams and I never got the chance. I raised my son alone, I lived in my car I got beat up a lot and I’m not gonna even get into all the other things because that has nothing to do with how she feels about me. She tells me she didn’t want me from the get-go. She tells me she doesn’t like women. She didn’t like children, she liked my brother and he… Well it doesn’t matter what he did to me, she never believe me and she blamed me for not telling her or anybody… I tried to explain how he threatened me if I would ever tell..
A lot of my friends just say you know what just because she’s family doesn’t mean you have to help her. But the empath in me and the compassion makes me feel like I have to help her in someway I can’t do it financially but I I feel that there’s something I need to do and I try and I try.
Every conversation that we’ve ever had in the last 15 years.. she hangs up no matter what their conversations about.
And she is really funny everyone loves her and she loved all my friends she compared me to all my friends my whole life… And they always said your mother is so sweet and kind and funny.. and I’m like “Who, what are you talking about?”
I was afraid to have a child because I thought whatever was done to me I would do to my child.
I broke the chain of abuse… But I wasn’t fixed… It showed up at this craziest times but I still did not succumb to the triggers and hurt my son…
I said I wasn’t going to write anything and I still wrote a lot more than I intended.
I did not write eloquently I’m not proofreading anything I’ve written I left out a lot of circumstances that would make their story make more sense. The grammar is all over the place and I apologize for that.. I just want to thank you Kim for sharing your story because it really woke me up and was such a comfort for my heart and mind, not that you went through all of that, but that I was not alone then, but I am not alone.. I might write more later or I might not… I’m having a bit of an episode, so who knows where my day will go next!
Thank you again and have a lovely weekend to one and all!
Your writing still takes my breath away! My mother and I had an equally complex relationship. My Nana too, was a crappy mother and fantastic grandmother. Honestly, I think I'm a much better grandmother (he calls me Cookie) than I was a mother.
When Holli began therapy -- at my suggestion -- I came up a lot. It was never hard for me to accept total responsibility for my poor behavior as her mother at times in her life. I was also the proud teen mom who fought for her like a tiger -- she has dyslexia -- and astound teachers with her ability to adapt as we used non-traditional methods which are now traditional in European societies.
I miss my mom more than I thought I would. I often say that . It startles people because she lived in our home for the last 2 years of her life. We got on like oil and water -- lit on fire by her need to be right and my need to be independent of her influence. Even until she died. Dear god, she was 96 and I was 61............I guess I never grew up.
I'm so proud and happy for you -- here's a thought I will leave you with on your complex feelings to your mom, like mine: Her influence brought you to who you are today and if you like that person, then she did a good job. I'm sure you've already accepted this but I often revisit this way of thinking when talking about my own daughter's issues with me!
The mother-daughter relationship can be fraught. I know mine and my mother's was.
I hope to depths of my soul my daughters will not be able to say the same thing.
I never felt loved by my mother in childhood so I didn’t believe I was lovable or competent. She would say things like, “Why can’t you do anything right?”
It was very hard getting through nursing school having no confidence in my judgment!!
After many years of therapy and experiencing unconditional love from my best friend, I began to discover healthy self esteem. I began to see how wounded she was by her childhood and my father and that she was doing the best she knew how at the time. She never learned social skills like how to give positive feedback or a compliment unless something was perfect. Even on her death bed she continued to issue orders which destroyed all my good intentions to create a feeling of connection with her. There was one day when she didn’t immediately greet me with ordering me to do something and I asked if she would like to hear what other people had seen in their near death experiences. She said she would. I told her about the light at the end of the tunnel and the life review and that there was no judgement. She said that would be nice, but apparently she didn’t believe me because until the end she kept requesting the chaplain to read her the Bible verse about no judgement for those who believe.
I think I’ve healed the part that didn’t feel loved by her and I now have healthy self love. I’m still wanting to find my love for her and I expect to continue my healing journey as long as I live. ❤️🩹
Lovely piece about all life’s journeys
I’m 61. My mother died when I was 7 and I had several caretakers until I was 18 and started then living my life motherless. So I can’t really relate as a daughter. This essay hits me hard as a mother, however, and I cry in fear reading it. I’ve raised 3 good men and mainly as a single parent, and who all have married and started little families and living 10-15 minutes from me. I’m very grateful for that and open my home to Sunday Dinners. We also do things separately and as a family here and there throughout the year, and they do a good job juggling their married families. This has all taken time and patience and commitment.
All that being said, as a mother all I want is for my adult kids to tell me they love me, to look at me and listen to my crazy stories as I feel my deep panic of their gradual detachment. Our roles as parents diminish quickly and for some those realizations cut to the bone and a deep sadness settles in. There can be sporadic anger and confusion with this. Crying yourself to sleep at night. Crazy texts and phone calls begging for affirmation that you matter. My kids have told me I will not spend my years alone nor will I die alone. That’s all great and good, but what I really want right now is just to be seen. While it matters.
I’m still making peace with how I disregarded my MIL when in my 30’s, and because I was too busy and too self centered to see her for who she was. And learn from her. She died at 85 years ago and I would give anything to sit in her presence now for just one day. I know exactly how she felt as her son left and cleaved to me and stopped seeing her as important anymore in his life. I get that now to the deepest parts of my being. Damn me to Hell for how I treated her during those painful times. She raised a good son for me.
I do have 1 son who has detached from me over the past 2 years and since getting married. Almost no calls anymore, no answering my texts, sporadic visits. He is a new father of 8 months and I haven’t seen the baby hardly at all - 10 minutes away. Our work schedules are the same and my home is open for babysitting. But I get nothing. I have no idea what has happened and neither does the rest of the family. And this hurts beyond belief and I’m trying to find peace in his decisions to not include me in his life any longer.
Thank you for this again. I wish all the daughters and mothers peace out there. Life is complicated as hell. Mental health, personalities, and external influences really do smack us hard sometimes.
We’re all just walking each other home.
My heart gos out to you. I too, wish I'd had more compassion for my MIL, who now has dementia and cut ties after I divorced her son 15 years ago. Some things just have to be unfinished. Don't damn yourself for past mistakes. You too, did the best you could at the time. Sending you love and light.
Thank you so very much. I’m hard on myself.
Tricia - there is so much here in your comment. I appreciate you writing this so much. You know, I follow a support group of parents whose kids have ghosted them. The pain is immense. I follow along to try and think about why this happens. I also have a similar thing with my MIL. She was so welcoming and wonderful and then when I becamea mom to two under two and also had to handle my difficult mother, I had very little bandwidth for aything else. I wish she had been closer. It has always been my fear that I would drive my kids away. I had this great text exchange with another commenter but she did it in the The Great Perhaps essay. It is heart breaking to go through this. We talked about how our kids perceive us one way and we perceive things another. Let me see if I can add you…. anyway, I’m saving your comment, we should talk about this further.
Thank you Kim. Would love to be connected to more resources and chat more with you about this complex topic.
Another interesting thing I’ve been studying and understanding is the role menopause years play on the mental health of women and how it’s not a health topic that has received good focus and yet impacts women’s mental health for many years of their lives. I have been involved with HRT for 15 years myself and always wonder about whether the toxic behaviors adult children describe about their mothers is connected to the very ill effects of having to live with menopause.
Bravo for writing all of this down and sharing it openly. It’s courageous. I know how hard that can be. And mother-daughter relationships can be so incredibly complicated.
Essays like this is why I haven’t quite given up on substack. So moving, relatable and interesting. Thank you. You inspire me to get back to it myself!