I love the way your openness enables frank writing, which hopefully then leads to honest feedback. This line:"They are not supposed to fix men." reminds me of one of the most cringe-worthy statements I have heard a woman can make to another regarding a man in their life: "Well you have him well trained." I believe humans are intended to look after each other, not to mold them. Manipulation has no place in any relationship. Regardless of one's gender or orientation I would hope that acceptance of individual differences leads the way to healthy behaviour. My eldest son is back in the dating pool & this swiping left or right has me so curious. His new situation has opened up new territory for us since the days of 'The Talk' being a father/son requirement. At 45 he has less to be embarrassed about & I have less to be afraid of––a pleasant combo.
Thank you. I love how you and your son have found this new phase in your relationship. what a cool thing to have happen, although I'm sure you've been laying the groundwork for it for decades. :)
Thank you for the compliment but actually I was quite shy as a young father to discuss sexual things. I’m happy to say I’ve grown up, just as he has matured, so our present is quite pleasant.
My husband had a prostectomy a couple of months ago due to cancer. He is 60, I am 67. Our sex life wasn't busy before, but the thought that it will be taken away is confronting. He is an introverted, creative person that suffed childhood trauma. He is having to take viagra to improve continence etc. Doubts he will have an erection again. We talk about sex not just being about intercourse. But navigating it is not easy. I haven't had much of a libido for quite a few years and have been using ovestin pesseries so I could enjoy intercourse when it happened. It's strange, I guess , you don't miss it until it's gone.
I so get this. It's like knowing you can (even if you don't) is critical. I hope the two of you get to explore ways of creating intimacy. Maybe it blows everything wide open and it'll be even better? We can hope!
If two roads diverged in the yellow woods, one road less traveled and lacks wear, the sign says love. The more traveled road says lust.
Stopping and trying to choose between the two roads. Such a battle but love is the better road for me but still incomplete.
Wait, under the brush is a hidden third road. I clear the brush and see a vision. A vision where love and lust hold hands and skip down this magical road with music, beautiful music they sing together.
I'd never heard of the Manosphere, or Andrew Tate, or The Red Pill movement before reading your essay. I don't use Reddit. I was shocked and fascinated to learn about this sub-culture. And saddened too. You are absolutely correct that ACES has something to do with this culture of suspicion and fear of women. There are reasons WHY people develop aberrant behaviors and beliefs. I appreciate you bringing this sub-culture to light and advocating for mentorship and compassionate understanding.
Back in 2003 or even 2002 I went out with a man who claimed to have slept with about 2500 women. He was not show stoppingly attractive but he was incredibly charismatic and he was incredibly good at making women feel special enough to want to fuck him. I was running a PR agency at the time and suggested that he create a course called charm school for boys. Before one lesson had been created, I wrote a press release and sent it out to my Media contacts. I was absolutely inundated with request to interview him. It was probably one of the most successful campaigns I had ever created based on nothing but curiosity about what this course might contain. He bottled it at the last minute, but I’ll never forget the enthusiasm for this particular topic from the media.
PS. He died from liver cancer in 2004 and it was through struggling with erectile dysfunction that he recognised something was seriously wrong with him.
Thank you for this, Kim! As a mother of boys I worry about this a lot but didn’t have the language to lay it all out. This was a great resource to share with my 16 year old son and we had a great discussion about it. ❤️
Oh! I'm so glad, that makes me so happy. I think "having a discussion" which proves that we can be compassionate about these issues and not judgey is going to be the vaccine that will keep him from sinking into these unhealthy places. So happy you guys had the talk!
Goodness, Kim! I’ve grown to appreciate and love you through your shared words. As a wife to a 62 y/o man and mother to three adult sons my surmising of men and masculinity is that when men stop trying to rule the world and learn to rule themselves IN ALL WAYS a return to the natural ways of being can thrive for all. I know this can read as an umbrella statement but anyone reading your article can unpack all that is here.
Try changing the 'subject'. It may not be your email - it may be due to 'vulgar and inappropriate language', believe it or not. My email wouldn't send until I removed the word 'viagra' from the subject and put the whole email into a document. I kid you not.
Kinda all over the place in this article but I welcome a strong alpha type male any day over a beta. The tv commercials constantly display beta males. It's nice to see a resurgence of the alpha aspect because men should be "manly" no matter how the penis functions or if you want to blame Trump 😉 😜.
Hi. Sandy - agree there is nothing wrong with an alpha guy at all! But not everyone is alpha and so we have to support people where they are. You go, Sandy, with your alpha men!!!!!
The subject you have raised has been and will continue to be explored in infinite detail. But there is on dimension (no pun intended) of the entire area of “sex” and the equipment involved that has gone under reported, if considered at all. I choose to add my voice to this discussion in order to call attention to this matter because, being born in 1935, my perspective may differ from the norm. First, let me state that “my point of view” has been unchanged by mere decades of life. In short, when walking behind a woman of almost any age, my eyes are immediately drawn to the area of her Gluteus Maximus, more often referred to as her butt. Its size, shape, contours and how it undulates as she moves are quickly appraised, and its density becomes a matter of curiosity. How would it feel to the squeeze of a gentile hand. My point is that age does not change one’s appreation of the female form is all of its variety. So what is it that changes the most? OPPORTUNITY!! In our Puritan-based society, opportunities for the elderly tend to dry up and are seldom replaced, no matter how many undulating butts walk the streets, teasing the imagination and memory of the observer. What is the purpose of discussing the values of a given pill when pills will only serve to intensify an itch which has no way of being scratched. Opportunity is the bane of the aging male. And while “memory” is a poor substitute, it will just have to suffice until an enlightened society shakes off its Puritan roots.
Kim, again, your thoughts on this subject are so on-point for me. Have you seen the short series “Adolescence” yet? It is based on these same ideas and I feel it’s a MUST watch. Thanks for this, I’m sharing it with other moms of teens and young adults.
Hi Thanks Maria! I did see adolescence and there is a ton of reseearch that backs up their contention that despair from this kind of isolation and cultishness can lead to notonly rape and abuse but public expressions, like mass shootings. I like adolescence but we never got to see why that world was so engulfing for young men, the despair that leads them to be changed and have theit values shift. I would've like to see more from the son's perview. but the series was excellent in so mnay ways. Thank you for sharing. I think young men and boys will do better if we lean in with compassion.
I consider myself to be emotionally healthy. I have loving male influences in my life. My paternal grandfather just turned 100, my dad tells me he loves me. Father-in-law has had multiple strokes and can’t really talk, yet he finds it within him to form the slow and deliberate words, “I want you to know I love you.”
My wife looks at me in the eyes and tells me she loves me. Multiple times a day. Yet…I’m confused by her love for me. I just don’t get it. I believe her, I just don’t understand why she does. It’s a quite personal form of cognitive dissonance and something I’m working on, you know, with my therapist.
There’s a wound in the story of men that is rooted deep. Even in emotionally “healthy” men who love our female companions on this planet. I think you’ve touched on this well here.
even you, with all the love and the history of love, wonder if you deserve it? I would love for you to share what you glean from therapy because I think this is at the heart of why men get so stuck in these loveless places. Thank you so much for sharing this, Jeff. I'm going to be thinking about it.
Kim, I’ve only recently returned to therapy, and I went back because I’m at my wits end with what I believe is ADHD. I’ve avoided the reality for years. I’ve really only done two intake sessions. As I talked…eh, spewed…about stuff, it became clear there were other things I could benefit from discussing there too. Oversharing my journey is what I do. (Turns out oversharing might be an ADHD thing…🤨) 😂
That said, I’ll send an email to the address you provided with more context and information you can think about. I find your writing to be a source of wisdom and knowledge.
Jeff - always love hearing from you. My adhd, which I've always had, but didn't feel the need to medicate, got much worse during menopause Meds have been a gift. Therapy is helping too. Love that you are reaching out for support and getting it.
Thanks for this post. I have a son and a collection of nephews and they all seemed to have escaped the manosphere for the most part. I am thankful for the solid presence of my brothers-in-law — who all think differently but all share the desire to raise good people.
Who needs a penis when there are tongues and hands? Men need to know this secret.
well-said. well-said. :)
I love the way your openness enables frank writing, which hopefully then leads to honest feedback. This line:"They are not supposed to fix men." reminds me of one of the most cringe-worthy statements I have heard a woman can make to another regarding a man in their life: "Well you have him well trained." I believe humans are intended to look after each other, not to mold them. Manipulation has no place in any relationship. Regardless of one's gender or orientation I would hope that acceptance of individual differences leads the way to healthy behaviour. My eldest son is back in the dating pool & this swiping left or right has me so curious. His new situation has opened up new territory for us since the days of 'The Talk' being a father/son requirement. At 45 he has less to be embarrassed about & I have less to be afraid of––a pleasant combo.
Thank you. I love how you and your son have found this new phase in your relationship. what a cool thing to have happen, although I'm sure you've been laying the groundwork for it for decades. :)
Thank you for the compliment but actually I was quite shy as a young father to discuss sexual things. I’m happy to say I’ve grown up, just as he has matured, so our present is quite pleasant.
We all get better!
Powerful, tragic, uplifting, and profoundly human all at once. Have to sleep on this … more reflection is needed…
Thank you for reading. Love to hear your thoughts.
My husband had a prostectomy a couple of months ago due to cancer. He is 60, I am 67. Our sex life wasn't busy before, but the thought that it will be taken away is confronting. He is an introverted, creative person that suffed childhood trauma. He is having to take viagra to improve continence etc. Doubts he will have an erection again. We talk about sex not just being about intercourse. But navigating it is not easy. I haven't had much of a libido for quite a few years and have been using ovestin pesseries so I could enjoy intercourse when it happened. It's strange, I guess , you don't miss it until it's gone.
I so get this. It's like knowing you can (even if you don't) is critical. I hope the two of you get to explore ways of creating intimacy. Maybe it blows everything wide open and it'll be even better? We can hope!
If two roads diverged in the yellow woods, one road less traveled and lacks wear, the sign says love. The more traveled road says lust.
Stopping and trying to choose between the two roads. Such a battle but love is the better road for me but still incomplete.
Wait, under the brush is a hidden third road. I clear the brush and see a vision. A vision where love and lust hold hands and skip down this magical road with music, beautiful music they sing together.
Love this, Jim! Yes!
They are all circumcised! This strikes me funny. My mate is not and much more entertaining 😆
They are very different experiences. thanks for raising this!
I'd never heard of the Manosphere, or Andrew Tate, or The Red Pill movement before reading your essay. I don't use Reddit. I was shocked and fascinated to learn about this sub-culture. And saddened too. You are absolutely correct that ACES has something to do with this culture of suspicion and fear of women. There are reasons WHY people develop aberrant behaviors and beliefs. I appreciate you bringing this sub-culture to light and advocating for mentorship and compassionate understanding.
Thank you! I think ACES are extremely significant.
Back in 2003 or even 2002 I went out with a man who claimed to have slept with about 2500 women. He was not show stoppingly attractive but he was incredibly charismatic and he was incredibly good at making women feel special enough to want to fuck him. I was running a PR agency at the time and suggested that he create a course called charm school for boys. Before one lesson had been created, I wrote a press release and sent it out to my Media contacts. I was absolutely inundated with request to interview him. It was probably one of the most successful campaigns I had ever created based on nothing but curiosity about what this course might contain. He bottled it at the last minute, but I’ll never forget the enthusiasm for this particular topic from the media.
oh wow! This is so telling. What a great story.
Yes he led to me writing my best selling book. He was quite a character. He was only 44 when he died 20 years ago.
PS. He died from liver cancer in 2004 and it was through struggling with erectile dysfunction that he recognised something was seriously wrong with him.
This is intersting for next week's essay - thank you, Suzanne!
Thank you for this, Kim! As a mother of boys I worry about this a lot but didn’t have the language to lay it all out. This was a great resource to share with my 16 year old son and we had a great discussion about it. ❤️
Oh! I'm so glad, that makes me so happy. I think "having a discussion" which proves that we can be compassionate about these issues and not judgey is going to be the vaccine that will keep him from sinking into these unhealthy places. So happy you guys had the talk!
Goodness, Kim! I’ve grown to appreciate and love you through your shared words. As a wife to a 62 y/o man and mother to three adult sons my surmising of men and masculinity is that when men stop trying to rule the world and learn to rule themselves IN ALL WAYS a return to the natural ways of being can thrive for all. I know this can read as an umbrella statement but anyone reading your article can unpack all that is here.
Tameeka - I love this. Yes. If we can just handle our own neuroses, we can thrive! this is wise.
Tried to send you a “Penis” response but received two email bouncbacks. Do you have another email?
Maybe it gets picked up as spam. Sorry, didnt consider that.I'll find you, put whatever you want in the heading!
Try changing the 'subject'. It may not be your email - it may be due to 'vulgar and inappropriate language', believe it or not. My email wouldn't send until I removed the word 'viagra' from the subject and put the whole email into a document. I kid you not.
Kinda all over the place in this article but I welcome a strong alpha type male any day over a beta. The tv commercials constantly display beta males. It's nice to see a resurgence of the alpha aspect because men should be "manly" no matter how the penis functions or if you want to blame Trump 😉 😜.
Hi. Sandy - agree there is nothing wrong with an alpha guy at all! But not everyone is alpha and so we have to support people where they are. You go, Sandy, with your alpha men!!!!!
The subject you have raised has been and will continue to be explored in infinite detail. But there is on dimension (no pun intended) of the entire area of “sex” and the equipment involved that has gone under reported, if considered at all. I choose to add my voice to this discussion in order to call attention to this matter because, being born in 1935, my perspective may differ from the norm. First, let me state that “my point of view” has been unchanged by mere decades of life. In short, when walking behind a woman of almost any age, my eyes are immediately drawn to the area of her Gluteus Maximus, more often referred to as her butt. Its size, shape, contours and how it undulates as she moves are quickly appraised, and its density becomes a matter of curiosity. How would it feel to the squeeze of a gentile hand. My point is that age does not change one’s appreation of the female form is all of its variety. So what is it that changes the most? OPPORTUNITY!! In our Puritan-based society, opportunities for the elderly tend to dry up and are seldom replaced, no matter how many undulating butts walk the streets, teasing the imagination and memory of the observer. What is the purpose of discussing the values of a given pill when pills will only serve to intensify an itch which has no way of being scratched. Opportunity is the bane of the aging male. And while “memory” is a poor substitute, it will just have to suffice until an enlightened society shakes off its Puritan roots.
Wayne - I so appreciate your perspective. Going to discuss your thoughts in next week's essay!
Kim, again, your thoughts on this subject are so on-point for me. Have you seen the short series “Adolescence” yet? It is based on these same ideas and I feel it’s a MUST watch. Thanks for this, I’m sharing it with other moms of teens and young adults.
Hi Thanks Maria! I did see adolescence and there is a ton of reseearch that backs up their contention that despair from this kind of isolation and cultishness can lead to notonly rape and abuse but public expressions, like mass shootings. I like adolescence but we never got to see why that world was so engulfing for young men, the despair that leads them to be changed and have theit values shift. I would've like to see more from the son's perview. but the series was excellent in so mnay ways. Thank you for sharing. I think young men and boys will do better if we lean in with compassion.
I consider myself to be emotionally healthy. I have loving male influences in my life. My paternal grandfather just turned 100, my dad tells me he loves me. Father-in-law has had multiple strokes and can’t really talk, yet he finds it within him to form the slow and deliberate words, “I want you to know I love you.”
My wife looks at me in the eyes and tells me she loves me. Multiple times a day. Yet…I’m confused by her love for me. I just don’t get it. I believe her, I just don’t understand why she does. It’s a quite personal form of cognitive dissonance and something I’m working on, you know, with my therapist.
There’s a wound in the story of men that is rooted deep. Even in emotionally “healthy” men who love our female companions on this planet. I think you’ve touched on this well here.
even you, with all the love and the history of love, wonder if you deserve it? I would love for you to share what you glean from therapy because I think this is at the heart of why men get so stuck in these loveless places. Thank you so much for sharing this, Jeff. I'm going to be thinking about it.
Kim, I’ve only recently returned to therapy, and I went back because I’m at my wits end with what I believe is ADHD. I’ve avoided the reality for years. I’ve really only done two intake sessions. As I talked…eh, spewed…about stuff, it became clear there were other things I could benefit from discussing there too. Oversharing my journey is what I do. (Turns out oversharing might be an ADHD thing…🤨) 😂
That said, I’ll send an email to the address you provided with more context and information you can think about. I find your writing to be a source of wisdom and knowledge.
Jeff - always love hearing from you. My adhd, which I've always had, but didn't feel the need to medicate, got much worse during menopause Meds have been a gift. Therapy is helping too. Love that you are reaching out for support and getting it.
Thanks for this post. I have a son and a collection of nephews and they all seemed to have escaped the manosphere for the most part. I am thankful for the solid presence of my brothers-in-law — who all think differently but all share the desire to raise good people.
Beautiful. I love this. We can think differenlty and be there for our boys. Wonderful.