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Dr. Nicole Mirkin's avatar

This is the most nuanced take on estrangement I’ve read holding grief, accountability, love, and limits all at once. The idea of “quiet quitting” a parent feels painfully true for so many of us. Not righteous, not cruel—just survival mixed with longing. Thank you for refusing the easy answers and sitting in the complexity.

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Kimberly Holt's avatar

I said to my daughter that I wished I could have been the mother she needed. That my biggest regret was her not feeling seen or loved by me. She did not have the reaction that the writer you mentioned did. I went to therapy, well I was almost never not in therapy during her teen years, trying to figure out how to meet her emotional needs. I asked to do family therapy with her. Then I had to apologize for wanting to do that because she found the idea abhorrent and another sign of my inadequecy. I apologized for not doing things I have literal receipts for having done because she said that an apology for that lack was what she needed to be in contact. I was told that what the kids need is the heartfelt apology even if it is for something untrue. That if you be the bigger person and find a way to mean it, it will repair the relationship. It didn't work for in our house.

Just because parents don't mention in comments all the ways they have tried doesn't mean they haven't done a myriad of things to try to be better or do better per their child's demands. And I have to say that when I read comments from young adults in their late teens or early twenties, that they tried everything before going no contact I always wonder how they are so mature at that age to even know all the things to try. How can they have lived enough yet to claim that? It seems impossible to me.

Then again I am, in the internet's eyes as the parent, completely unworthy of contact, or even of being told that I am unworthy since my daughter moved and changed phone number without telling me anything and children are never wrong or misguided or just young. The last I knew she was thanking me for being there for her after a signficant breakup and then total silence. It's hard for me to see how any more introspection on my part will help anything. She will never know that I did any work at all and I will never know whether I was doing the right work or whether I was barking up the wrong tree the whole time. It will just turn into unhelpful solo rumination on my part. But I guess if this is what it takes for her to live her best life, then I will have to accept it because I do love her and wish the best for her.

I just wish that I felt like the people I see posting on no contact sites seemed like they are living their best lives. Often they just seem sad and solo ruminating themselves.

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Donna Wies's avatar

For some reason, essays about estrangement are popping up in my feed a lot. I was close to my mother and my daughter lives with me and we have a wonderful relationship. But I have noticed that the parents who comment on these essays rarely take any responsibility for the broken relationship and seem unwilling or unable to examine their part in it. I’ve taken my own inventory and worked to strengthen my relationships, apologizing and making amends for harm I’ve done. This Includes harm to my daughter, as no parent is perfect and I know I made mistakes and hurt her. I’m also surprised how many parents blame “the trans cult”….

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Kari Bentley-Quinn's avatar

I’ve been estranged from my father for 20 years on and off, and a decade with my mother. As much as I’d love a world where I got the parents I needed, the world I exist in required me to build a new family from scratch. If there is a possibility of repair, it’s not up to me to grab the toolkit. I don’t think they’re capable of taking responsibility.

Also, I’m sorry about your mom. ❤️

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Absurd Stuff's avatar

I've carried this column in my head/heart for the whole week, and still don't feel comfortable with any of the "resolutions" to these types of situations. I'm a sideline player in a no contact situation in my family, and was asked by one party to pick their side or be cut off, and so, was cut off, because I don't want to pick a side. As a 50-something who knew my grandparents, parents, aunts and uncles, cousins, I have watched as the notion of family has slowly dissipated for many reasons -- death, distance, even politics, and something about that is still sad to me. Is it just a nostalgic notion? Of course we have the "families we choose (friends)" vs. the families we are born with, but despite allllll of my birth family's issues, I value our shared history, even though certainly each person in every generation is imperfect. While I understand that no one should allow themselves to be treated cruelly, it still makes me sad that both parties -- all parties -- can't/won't put in the therapeutic work to heal. I guess I'm just wrestling with old notions of the importance of family -- perhaps younger generations, or those who didn't know their full families, don't see any value. I'm still really grateful that I have a few family members left in my generation whom I grew up with, because we share more than memories, we share roots -- a foundation of beliefs and traditions that meant everything to my grandparents and their generation. But of course no one's mental health is worth sacrificing for the past or for traditions. Still, I hold out hope for nuance, growth, accountability, work, forgiveness, middle ground, and healing. (Also, I think the role of each individual's mental health, or how a family recognizes and supports, or fails to support, a person with serious mental illness, is worth a separate look...) Anyway, great, thought-provoking essay, as usual, Kim. Thanks.

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Kim Foster's avatar

I love ths nuanced take! I feel a lot like this which is why I couldn't completely cut off my mom. She was rigid and refused to look inside herself, but I could still do those things. I could always re-consider. I think the discontent you are thinking about is that rigidness and lack of self-analysis, where a person on any side thinks they are right and refuses to budge. That assuredness that there is only one way, makes everything so hard. Even small shifts and changes can't happen when people are so rigid. Thank you for thoughtfully considering all of this, even as you have been unfairly cut out. This stuff is complex and man, it really requires all our brain power, heart and soul to work it out. xo

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Absurd Stuff's avatar

Thanks, Kim. xo

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MR ROBERT THOMPSON's avatar

Estrangement is one of those awesome words that can spice up a conversation. And what a delightful conversation you are having with readers here Kim! Estrangement is no stranger to me. I watched the back&forth between my sister and our mother. Wicked, at times, it was. Sometimes there was beauty in the ugliness. I learned early to separate myself from the ongoing dissections of motive, anger, resentment, and expectational failure that unfolded from our childhood home, into adult directions. Several (more than I can count really) times I cheered from the sidelines as seeds of reconciliation appeared to germinate. more often than not it was merely an armistice declared from the exhaustion of it all. My dad was ineffectual as he tried endlessly to calm the waters. I was often asked to be an ally to either side but my signature on that memorandum had to be avoided for my own sanity. Estrangement came too late in my opinion. My sister turned to alcohol and died early as a result of that toxic relationship. In the later years of my mom's life I tended to her needs, just barely. Close to the end of her life she asked me to hold her hand. I could not grasp that strange five fingered thing because the mother-in-it had disappeared long ago.

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Kim Foster's avatar

wow. thank you for mentioning the impact of family separation on family members on the sidelines. They are impacted too. Being asked to take sides, etc. It really just engulfs everyone in various ways. The last part made me sad about your sister and the self-medicating and the toxicity that she couldn't get a handle on. And I feel the same about pre-grieving. Like by the time, they are gone, you have processed a lot. Sending love, Mr. Thompson!

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MR ROBERT THOMPSON's avatar

Always a pleasure to dialogue with you Kim. The processing continues!

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Nichole beer's avatar

Great insights as always. I only engage with one of my siblings and none of my nieces, my nephews or my nibbling. It used to hurt, now it is more of a resignation. I grieve what could have been. More appropriately, what should have been.

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Kim Foster's avatar

I am familiar with the resignation. It's the point where you stop trying to make everything work and you just accept. But there isn't really peace, right? It's a weird sludgy place to be. Sending you love, as always. xo

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Nichole beer's avatar

No there isn’t. It creeps up. Wishing you all good things. Good and in the New Year. 🧡

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Meghan Bell's avatar

I was low contact with my parents and brother for a couple years, but let them back into my life after my first daughter was born. My father acknowledged he wasn't a good parent and kind of apologized, which helped. My brother also apologized for how he treated me when we were kids and is now on medication to chill him out. My mom ... is my mom, she can only see herself as the victim. But she's doing okay as a grandparent. It's still hard, and my mental health definitely suffers for it. Thank you for this essay. It's hard to know what the right thing to do is.

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Kim Foster's avatar

Meghan, you nailed it. It's hard to know what the right move is. You feel like a horrble person and then you find yourself in situations that make you feel awful. you are obligated and not obligated. How have you handling your mom?

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Meghan Bell's avatar

Oh, I don't know. Lately, poorly. The mother wound is pretty big and I had my second kid last year and both my mom and my husband's mom (also very narcissistic) were kind of terrible to me while I was postpartum, vulnerable, and sick (I had RSV and a load of laundry my mom did for me gave me hives all over my body ... had to throw the clothes out. My mom seems more concerned that people will think she poisoned me on purpose than that the load of laundry poisoned me in the first place.) My mom didn't even try to hold my youngest daughter until she was over a year old -- she lives less than five minutes from me.

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Kim Foster's avatar

Ugh, these stories got me in the gut. It really is all the little cuts. That feeling that when you are at your most vulnerable, she will do that thing that creates the most pain, even if she doesn’t even see it, and she probably won’t. I’m sorry. This is very very hard stuff.

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Karin Flodstrom's avatar

Great article! Thank you. I love the way you explain the process of estrangement as a last resort after every other possible way to reconnect has been tried. So true.

Jeff Brown writes about how, when one person grows into greater authenticity, they simply no longer fit into their family. Their authenticity grates on their family and challenges the status quo. The family’s lack of authenticity grates on the person who has changed.

It’s no one‘s fault. When you write about no longer accepting toxic behavior, you are basically describing this kind of change.

I feel for the way you did your best to stay connected with your mother. It was painful and awkward, but you still showed up for her. I am estranged from a family member right now. I’ve done everything I can to reconnect, but she’s completely frozen me out. It hurts. All I can do is honor her wishes and keep the door open if she changes her mind. However, I will not tolerate disrespect.

Your essay is a touchstone for many of us who are doing our best in painful circumstances, This is particularly helpful during the holiday season.

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Emily's avatar

"Jeff Brown writes about how, when one person grows into greater authenticity, they simply no longer fit into their family. Their authenticity grates on their family and challenges the status quo. The family’s lack of authenticity grates on the person who has changed."

Thank you for sharing this insight.

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Karin Flodstrom's avatar

You’re welcome!

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Kim Foster's avatar

Karin - oof, yes everything is multiplied during the holdays. You can kind of just go along the rest of the year but everything gets outed this season. Thank you for your support and your kind words about my mom. I love what you wrote about Jeff Brown, will be thnkng about that for awhile.

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Jan N's avatar

Alas I have witnessed this from another perspective. I had a very similar relationship as you did with my father, but my sister ‘went no contact’ - not saying she didn’t have (some flimsy) reasons, but they were blown out of all proportion to validate her choices. He was old and frail and simply could not understand why the daughter he had adored and (by his lights) done everything he could to support her. And in fact her issues had totally come to dominate my parents’ lives. They had supported her financially all her life until they no longer could. He was not abusive, or ‘toxic’ (although in combination they were toxic) he was a rather unintelligent man who had had a difficult family himself. I think there is often another side to the story here - often the child feels resentful and wants someone to blame and parents are a convenient target. You behaved in the right way - this is not being estranged but putting sensible boundaries in place.

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Kim Foster's avatar

Jan - Yout last sentence has really given me so much peace. You are right. I think we weren't estranged. And I did put sensible boundaries up and maybe that's okay. or the only thing I could've done. I guess I'm still grieving the loss of oyr relationship. I have this tender space in my heart for the parents who don't understand why their kids go no contact. :)

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Jan N's avatar

Kim - thanks for your reply. I made different choices from my sister, but I found dealing with my father very hard. A few years before my father died I decided that my motivation for doing something similar to you - I was in contact and did a lot for him, but was incapable of adoring him the way he felt was his just deserts (in fact my boundaries were more flimsy than yours at great personal cost) - I needed to live with myself after he was gone and not feel guilty that I could have done more. I did more than I should, but I don’t feel guilty now just very sad. I really like your essay as it’s a great deal more nuanced than much of what’s out there on the topic.

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Kim Foster's avatar

I so get that balance of wanting self-protection while also wanting to not have regrets. And also we loved them, right? It's hard to lose all those feelings of closeness or forget the good times, the times they got it so right. This is so complex. The nuance is on purpose because it isn't about a villain and a hero, it's about tragically imperfect humans trying to get it right! Thanks so much for sharing!

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Jan N's avatar

Spot on Kim!

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Cinthia Teague's avatar

I have read and re-read this article from many vantage points. Much to ponder. Ty, Kim.

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Kim Foster's avatar

Thank you, Cinthia. I really wanted to tak on all the vantage points. It isn't one-sided. It's very dynamic.

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Marisa Miller's avatar

‘We don’t become estranged from people who make us feel safe’ is something I read awhile ago and think about what I think about my mom.

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Kim Foster's avatar

oof, well that cuts through it all, doesn't it?

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Marisa Miller's avatar

I like when David teaches you stuff and then you teach us that stuff. How did he get so normal? Was it growing up around all the deadly snakes and spiders?

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Kim Foster's avatar

ha ha ha ha ha he is so much healthier than I am! Oh man, bugs the size of venemous killer puppies probably helped. LOL

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Deborah Demander's avatar

This hit so hard. Thank you.

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Kim Foster's avatar

It's a lot. LOL. xo

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Kate Selner's avatar

I had a narcissist father who flatly refused to see his part in the pain he caused us as children, and everyone of my siblings and I had multiple experiences to which he ridiculed, gaslit, criticized, laughed at us or shamed us for what he considered our terrible behavior. My sister, upon trying to tell him how deeply he hurt her, ended up sobbing uncontrollably and all our father could do was look at her in disgust. He didn't, and couldn't apologize. That was the end for me. He believed he was the perfect father and after many sit-down talks to try and get him to understand our POV, I just gave up. When he died, I hadn't spoken to him in over a year. His passing left me with a profound relief that we no longer needed to walk on eggshells around him, being complacent and respectful and making no mention of events or people that triggered his anger. I haven't missed him one bit, either. What I do miss is having a parent who could support me, encourage me and love me unconditionally, and these traits I carry close to my heart in my relationship with my adult son. I will never treat him the way my parents treated me, and that is a promise I will take to my grave.

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Jan N's avatar

Kate we could be sisters our dads seem so similar. It’s very hard. I did stay and do everything for him - as no one else would - he died nearly a year ago and I feel like you. How awful to die unmourned by your daughters. It’s just so tragic.

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Kim Foster's avatar

This line made my chest ache: "How awful to die unmourned by your daughters." devastating.

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Jan N's avatar

Just so sad, isn’t it. What a horrible thing.

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Kim Foster's avatar

Kate, I went through all the emotions reading this. Your dad, the crying, his lack of understanding, the disgust, the lack of seeing you both. wow. Thank you for sharing this. Creating distance also felt like a relief. I think now I second guess. This helps me. I'm glad you were able to make the right decision for yourself. xo

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Gigi Grace's avatar

So much resonance reading this. I was estranged for 14 years from my mother and reconciled a few years before her passing. She was estranged from her mother for the same timeframe and never healed a rift with her sister.

Now I’m the mother of adult children- and know I was less than in my care of them at times and estrangement has been a risk. The words: when my mother told me she had not been the mother to me that she wished she’d been, she became that mother for the first time. This expresses the journey I have taken with my children. We still bruise and bump each other but gently and with love we maintain our relationships.

Thanks for writing.

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Kim Foster's avatar

Gigi - i love that you recognized that estrangement could happen and that it was, in some ways, a generational legacy that you stopped. Amazing. You give me hope. Thank you.

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